tv Morning Joe MSNBC October 24, 2012 3:00am-5:59am PDT
to fall asleep. >> we aim to heal. this is a demo we see a lot. you'll see what i mean. this is from andrew. quote, no dude ever punched his old lady on weed. they throw tostitos at them and everybody giggles. #legalizeit. that's actually most of our viewers. "morning joe" starts right now. ♪ i believe that assad must go. >> assad has to go. >> i don't want to have our military involved in syria. >> for us to get more entangled militarily in syria is a serious step. >> so the right course for us is working through our partners. >> in consultation with our partners. >> to identify responsible parties within syria. >> mobilizing the moderate forces. >> organize them. >> helping the opposition organize. >> we do need to make sure. >> making absolutely certain. >> that they don't have arms. >> arms. >> in the wrong hands.
>> folks who could eventually turn them against us. >> to hurt us down the road. thank you. >> thank you. >> wow! what the hell was that? on foreign policy, it appears that all that's left for the presidential race is one model. i mean, at least we still get our choice of color, but it's the same model! >> severe agreement. top of the hour, good morning, everyone. it's 6:00 on the east coast, wednesday, october 24th. welcome to "morning joe." a little tired, barnicle? >> yes. >> you look tired. with us on set, msnbc contributor mike barnicle. and in washington, not looking tired at all, bbc world news anchor katty kay. why is it say washington? we're damn tired. >> i tell you what. >> why don't you take over, joe.
>> it's almost like she's here. >> out of "star trek." >> yeah. >> can i just say, though -- >> is he in chicago or is he here? >> we have mark halperin, of course, right here, right across the table. you know, if a lot of people out there are wondering why mika's thrown off this morning, all you need to do, willie, look at her sweater. that's why she's in mourning. it's jet green, of course -- >> i'm looking at the food on your sweater. >> all of the great love stories of our time, sampson and delilah, right? >> i told you he was distracted. >> romeo and juliet. lucy and desi, ronny and nancy. as the who sang in "who's next," "the song is over. i'm left with only tears." mark and eva longoria. >> i told you. >> splitsville. >> i told you, he was distracted. >> it's a romance that i thought would last a lunchtime and now it's over.
>> i confess to not being as read in on that story as i should be. let me report back to you. >> you know lupica. they say these are the glory days of new york giants fans. go back to the '50s, the glory days of the early '60s. now's the time. you disagree. he's sniffing glue. >> he is greatly enamored of eli manning, as am i, but i think the glory days of the new york giants were at the formation of popularity of pro football. those great teams in the '50s and '60s. >> you're so old. >> you're a cruel young man. why are you doing that? >> i'm going to go lupica on this one. a couple super bowls. they beat one of the best teams in history, the 18-0 patriots could go back this year. it's a good time to be a giants fan. >> a good time to be a giants fan and a good time to be following campaigns if you like
candidates that say nothing. >> say nothing. >> say nothing. we were talking about that before. they go out on the campaign trail, this is the most important election ever! ever! in the history of, like, all time. and they say nothing. they say nothing. i'm for the middle class. what about you? i'm for the middle class. come on, man. >> one day one of them might sound really against the middle class. >> yes. >> against the middle class. >> yes. >> and against military. >> that would be different. >> not a hope. >> against the military, against the middle class. i mean, come on. they are all saying the same thing, aren't they, mika? >> well, actually, i think you have more of a clear vision of what the president plans to do than mitt romney. we're not going to argue that right now. >> i want to go back to the eva longoria story now. >> yes, i'm sure you are. >> if that's your take, i'm going to page 6. >> mark halperin has been asking for weeks for specifics from the president about what he would
do, what new policies he would propose over the next four years. so he put out this 20-page booklet yesterday. >> that's great. >> maybe we'll get a look at what a second term would look like. one line. quote, the document contains no new proposals. >> oh, wow. >> not a new word in it. >> but you know, at least, mark halperin, we can find out what he's going to do by what he says at editorial board meetings because this has been forever. you go to editorial board meetings, and you talk and you talk to the editorial board, and they decide whether they're going to endorse you, and then they tell the people what you told them, right? that's how it works, right? >> it's a great way to learn things particularly in the battleground states with a lot of serious newspapers who get a chance with an extended conversation with the president so he can kind of lay out views for the reeders, or not. >> like des moines, let's say. so the president goes on "the view," and he goes on "inside edition" or all these other shows or whatever. he calls up "the des moines
register" after refusing to be interviewed there, and then he goes, i'll talk to you, but you can't tell anybody what i said to you. you can't tell your readership what i said to you. what's going on here? these guys are so insulated. put bubble wrap on them. romney, i guess, at least spoke to them. >> yeah, i mean, i think this will probably be a blip in this campaign, but the symbolism for people on the right certainly but also for a lot of people in the media is not particularly good. the notion of doing an ed board conversation that's basically off the record to try to win the important endorsement. that's one of the newspaper endorsements in this country that actually still really matters. so to do it in a secret way, it's certainly interesting, it's certainly unusual, and it does speak to the fact that the president is somewhat cloistered, although i should say he has spent some quality time with brian williams over the next couple of days. and brine's got a very important interview. i don't think, based on my conversation with the obama folks yesterday, i don't think the president's going to be doing very many interviews like
the kind he's going to do with brian over the next couple days. and that "des moines register" thing, i don't think we've seen that play out completely. the paper says it's not going to impact their endorsement, but i think there will be a lot of talk in iowa to do it the way he did. >> we'll talk about it this morning. i can't wait to get mike's input. i wonder how "the globe" editors would handle that. let's go to the top of the news, mika. >> we're in the final sprint before election day, and the canned da candidates' travel plans tell you everything. the nbc political team puts the remaining of toss-up states at seven with a total of 89 electoral votes up for grabs. today alone, the white house contenders and their running mates will hit at least four of those states from reno, nevada, to davenport, iowa. just a single point separates the two candidates among likely voters. that's according to the latest abc news/"washington post" tracking poll. speaking alongside paul ryan outside las vegas yesterday, mitt romney looked to claim the momentum with just 13 days to go
until the final votes are cast. >> these debates have supercharged our campaign. there's no question about it. we're seeing more and more enthusiasm, more and more support. you know, i had to look at the president's campaign as well through the eyes of those debates. well, you know, he's been reduced to try to defend characters on "sesame street" and word games of various kinds. and then misfired attacks after another. we've gone through four debates now. we've gone through four debates with the vice presidential debate and my debates, and we haven't heard an agenda from the president, and that's why his campaign is taking on water, and our campaign is full speed ahead. >> we've come up with a name for this condition. it's called romnesia. we're breaking down the symptoms here. if you've come down with a case of romnesia, if you can't seem
to remember the policies on your website or the promises that you've been making over the six years that you've been running for president, if you can't even remember what you said last w k week, don't worry. obamacare covers preexisting conditions. we can fix you up. we can cure this disease. >> okay. you ever had that? hello? >> i'm a little depressed right now. >> yeah, yeah. >> i wonder, katty, if barack obama thought five years ago when he knew he was going to have to sacrifice so much time away from his children and his wife, it was a terrible decision for him, and make all the horrific personal sacrifices that one has to make to be president of the united states, if he could imagined in a million years five years later
that his re-election would depend on giving speeches like that 13 days out, am i the only one depressed here? >> it's so far from what it was in 2008, right? when he was talking at this stage in the campaign two weeks before the election, and he had all of that momentum, and he was talking about all of the things he was going to do in the country, and that was an agenda campaign. he was promising to change the way washington works, to change the way politics works here. and now i guess chicago has said hey, we think this romnesia idea is your ticket to re-election, mr. president, in the last two weeks. i think you're right. it's sort of depressing if that's what it comes down to. maybe it's just that it's gone on -- mike and i were talking before the show, maybe it's gone on too long. maybe we're at the stage of there's nothing left of importance to say. i mean, there's a whole lot to say -- >> that would be the case, katty, if both sides told us what they were going to do over the next four years. i've gotten to the point now
where i long for the days where he tells us, mike, that he's going to heal the earth and stop the oceans from rising. at least he was saying something that you could laugh at him. you could mock him for these grandiose ideas, but at least there were ideas. and mitt romney says he's got a plan for the next four years. he talks about five-point plan. it's as vapid and empty as barack obama's agenda for the next four years. nobody's talking about the future, nobody. >> first of all, we should every day here issue a warning to people watching with their twitter feed ready to go. these are observations, not endorsements. so get off twitter as we observe what we're talking about here. to your point, this has been one of the most depressing campaigns. in the context of what's going on in this country and the problems facing this country, both sides -- both sides are ignoring everyday obstacles that people confront. some out there today there's
someone, multiple numbers of people, five, ten people working in a small factory who are going to lose their jobs over the next year, year and a half to someone with an ipad. technology is going to steal their jobs. and no one is talking about things like that. no one is talking about the anxiety that's out there due to the economy in this country. that millions and millions of people feel every day. >> and mika, it continues. you look on the front page of "the financial times." u.s. results raise fresh fears for the economy. we all hope the economy is turning around, but for so many people out there who are struggling, it just seems like this is going on and on. you have friends. we all have friends, you know, in their late 40s, 50s that lost a job that they just don't have any reason to believe that they're going to get their job back. >> i think the reset for them is going to be in some cases devastating because it's never going to be what they had before. >> exactly. >> that's the thing that we haven't seen in a lifetime. >> exactly.
>> it's also because things -- the bubble got bigger and bigger and bigger. so there is somewhat of a reset that's necessary if we're going to actually do things right. >> and you've got to wonder if the international financial markets around looking at what's happening in this campaign and looking at the prospect of what -- take the balance sheet of all that america needs to do on energy, immigration, education, entitlement reform. you know, cutting spending, raising taxes, and look at what the politicians seem capable of doing or at least what they're talking about doing which is almost nothing, and you wonder if the financial markets aren't at some point going to say wow! if america can't do this thing right, if it can't do the easy things right, which is get over the fiscal cliff or step back from the fiscal cliff, how is it going to do the big things? how is it going to do the big things the country needs to stop those kind of headlines in "the financial times"? >> mark halperin, you're in chicago. obviously, the president's campaign team as well as mitt romney's campaign team made the
calculation a long time ago that they weren't going to make tough choices. they weren't going to make this a campaign, a mandate campaign. so what happens -- let's say the president wins. and gets re-elected. you're in chicago. what does chicago say his mandate is for the next four years? what's his mandate? what's mitt romney's mandate? that i figured out how to run better 30-second ads? what's the mandate? >> they're both going to face real challenges, and it's unprecedented. the fiscal cliff will be an instant challenge particularly if the president wins. right now you'd have to say the house is most certainly going to stay in republican hands. the senate at this point looks like it's going to stay in democratic hands. that means if the president wins, it's absolutely status quo. and if you're john boehner or mitch mcconnell and still in the minority, you can say yeah, you won, but with a weak candidate, and we still have our house majority, and we still can block things in the senate.
it's going to be very difficult for either of these guys, given the campaigns they're running, to be a strong enough president to send a signal to the markets, to send a signal to the american people in a lame-duck session or in january, yeah, i won so now we're going to do things my way and deal with all the complexity of the fiscal cliff, taxes and spending and revenue and medium and short-term deficit reduction. >> so this isn't a show about nothing. you disagree, obviously, ideologically on many levels with the president's position on the issues. what should mitt romney be saying? what is it that he's not saying that is frustrating you the most this morning, that is making it very hard to cover the story without just throwing your hands in the air and saying, come on. they're both not saying anything. what should he be saying that would make him -- >> i've said it repeatedly. we've got a fiscal cliff. we're about to fall off a fiscal cliff. it's very simple. medicare is going bankrupt. >> you think he should go on the campaign trail right now. that's what you would do and say this? >> you don't start it 13 days
out. you start it a year out and say this is what my campaign's about. i've talked about it. we're going to have to cut the growth of medicare, of medicaid, of social security. we're going to have to slash defense spending. we're going to have to stop rebuilding other countries and start rebuilding our own country. the banks keep getting bigger and bigger. can you believe this? four years after the crash, nobody's talking about the fact that too big to fail has gotten bigger. nobody on either side is talking about breaking up the big banks. nobody on either side's talking about breaking up the military industrial complex. nobody on either side is talking about breaking up the big government. everything's getting bigger. the banks are getting bigger. the military's getting bigger. government's getting bigger. the war machine's getting bigger. our taxes are getting higher. nobody on either side are tackling these issues. we are, willie geist, we are as
bloated as the yankees' payroll. this doesn't end well. >> he worked it in. >> do you believe i worked it in? seriously. >> he's right. >> think about it. the banks are bigger than ever. four years after lehman. our war machine is bigger than ever. four years after -- you know, the anti-war president ran, we're still in afghanistan. we talked about drone attacks yesterday. both sides are trying to prove they're stronger on national defense. our military's bankrupting us. medicare, medicaid and social security is bankrupting us. nobody's talking about it. our taxes getting higher. government's getting higher. regulations are growing more. nobody's talking about what americans want them to talk about. why? why are both the parties the same? >> it's a strange thing to have both candidates asking us essentially to follow them blindly into the next four years. in other words, i'm not going to really get into specifics about what i'm going to do, but trust me, i'm better than him or he's worse than me. the romnesia thing is about mitt
romney standing for nothing, the argument they've made for a long time. he has no core. he'll shapeshift depending on who he's talking to. from both sides, mitt roichmney too, we don't know what happens on day one. to see some new policies. i know we're recovering and dug ourselves out of a ditch, but it's got to happen faster. why would that happen faster with you, mr. president or you, mitt romney, other than cutting tax, how are we going to get going into the next four years? >> you know the answer to the question you just asked. it's pretty simple. it's fear of losing. fear of losing their grip on power. both parties, both candidates. governor romney said the other night, and he's absolutely correct, with regard to afghanistan and anywhere else in the world, we can't kill our way to victory. and we can't. but what he didn't say was, we can't cut our way to solvency. you can call it what you will. you can call it raising taxes or
whatever. we have to address the tax code in this system. it's a highly inequitable tax code. >> sure. >> it has to be reformed. >> but we can't raise taxes to solvency either. >> i agree. >> if we could seize the assets of the top 1%, take everything, take 100%, go in with tanks, take their homes, sell them, do all of that, that still wouldn't make us solvent. not more than for eight, nine, ten months. but that is, mika, what's so depressing. barack obama's answer to everything, we're going to raise taxes on the rich. mitt romney's answer to everything, we're going to cut taxes for the rich. great. okay, fine. what else are you going to do? because cutting taxes for the rich, that's not going to do anything in the long run. raising taxes on the rich? it will make you feel better. >> so you want them to talk about what they're going to cut. >> it will be equitable. >> 13 days before the election. i mean, it's not realistic, and
you know it's not. and this president at this point, i think, has done a lot of things that he set out to do in the first campaign, and he hasn't. and you're going to have to look at that and decide whether or not you want to vote for him again. >> what's he going to do for the next four years? >> with romney, you have to figure out what's different than george w. bush's policy and decide if you want to go that way. it's kind of like a difficult road map. i agree with you. but i do think there's more information out there for people to look at than you're saying. in terms of what will happen, what the next four years will look like. >> you ask the white house economic team, you're under criticism for not laying out an agenda for the next four years. they're actually remarkably clear about what they want to do. they want to address the deficit issue on terms of revenue and spending. and this is the side of mitt romney's plan that is not making sense. we all this, the numbers don't make sense. you cannot find an economist that say that his numbers add up. in that sense, he has not
leveled with voters. >> so the president's going to tackle medicare? >> so he says that -- this is what the economic team says. >> right. >> that they will look at spending and revenue. partly in terms of the fiscal cliff but also in the longer term. they will address energy, infrastructure, and they will address immigration. and those are the four things they say they're going to do. >> wait, hold on. so let's break this down. you say they're going to look at spending, and they're going to look at revenue. >> yeah. >> great. everybody has to look at spending and revenue. that's a plan? who doesn't look at spending and revenue? >> well, because what we've got is plans out there that are not making sense. you have a mitt romney plan out there and frayed at the moment where the revenue side of it doesn't make sense. there's no way he's going to do a 20% tax cut across the board. he can't do it. >> right. >> so he's going out there, campaigning on something he knows he's not going to do. it does not add up. >> and the democrats are demagoguing on medicare, as is the president. just like the republicans did in 2010. >> right. okay, so you want to get into the specifics of the entitlement
reform, to which they're both going to need the other side to sign up because the democrats -- the republicans are never going to be able to make the cuts they want in terms of medicare and medicaid without a deal to be made. >> without a deal to be made. >> you can't talk about -- you can't talk about spending, and you can't talk about saving this country fiscally, mark halperin, if you don't talk about medicare and medicaid. as simpson-bowles says, erskine bowles said a couple weeks ago in chicago, every dime the united states government took in this past year went to pay medicare, medicaid, social security, and interest on the debt. that's it. those three programs and interest on the debt. and we don't have either candidate talking specifically about how they're going to change that. >> well, look. one of the biggest complexities in dealing with the fiscal cliff is dealing with health care, not just medicare and medicaid but health care overall. i've been surprised at how little attack on obamacare has
been part of governor romney's closing argument at least so far. he'll mention it on occasion, but i thought it would be front and center. reasons for that, the president's certainly not out there every day talking about how great obamacare is and how people should reward him with a second term so he can fully implement it. neither of them, for their own reasons, wants to take that on fully, but it's a huge part of what the discussions are going to have to be about because if you're going to lower the deficit in the medium and long term, you're going to have to either have faith that obamacare's going to lower the deficit, which the president thinks it will, or you're going to have to find some ways to change it to have even more cost savings on the health care side. >> all right. we have a lot more news to cover this morning. coming up, we'll talk to nbc political news director chuck todd. reverend al sharpton, david remnick and kate white. up next in the "politico playbook," clint eastwood makes another cameo in the presidential campaign. >> oh, no. >> oh, dear. mike allen will explain that
next. but first, here's bill karins with a check on the forecast. bill. >> good morning, everyone. a difficult day for meteorologists up and down the east coast, myself included. we're looking at the potential for an historic storm to develop from sandy and be somewhere in new england about monday and tuesday of next week. let me explain what's happening here. sandy has intensified. it looks to approach jamaica today as a hurricane, cross cuba most likely as a hurricane as we go throughout the day tomorrow. as we put the maps in motion, notice florida, very close to sandy on friday, tropical storm watches have been issued for southeast florida. it looks like a glancing blow for you. then it looks like the storm will be between the outer banks and bermuda sunday into monday when all the questions occur because there's the possibility that the very strong jet stream and the cold air through the middle of the country could capture the storm and send it back towards new england. it will be very rare. historically something like that has rarely happened. that's why it's hard to believe
it could. i'd say there's a 50% chance of that. and if it does happen like that, it would be a strong nor'easter-type storm. no snow but heavy rain, a lot of wind, flooding problems and also a lot of damaging winds. and again, the timing will be monday, tuesday. it's going to be a close call no matter what. now is the time to kind of think about it. you don't have to make any preparations quite yet. as far as the forecast today, no issues in new england. maybe light rain in areas of new york city. the rest of the country looks nice and very warm. a big chance and the potential of a huge nor'easter-type storm in new england is all the buzz in the weather world. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. even better.
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still cover the issues, we took some audio of romney and obama arguing about our relationship with russia, and we added that audio to a youtube clip of two adorable twin boys talking to each other. and now this, to me, turns from a lose-lose to a win-win. >> governor romney, i'm glad that you recognize that al qaeda's a threat. because a few months ago when you were asked what's the biggest geopolitical threat facing america, you said russia. >> attacking me is not an agenda. >> the 1980s are calling to ask for their foreign policy back because the cold war's been over for 20 years. >> russia, i indicated, is a geopolitical -- >> governor romney, you keep on trying to airbrush history. >> excuse me, that's the height of silliness. >> i'm silly, you're the one. >> so cute. >> oh, my gosh. >> time now to take a look at the "morning papers." we'll start with "usa today." not only are american workers stressed by job uncertainty and stagnant wages, but according to a new study, they're also increasingly burned out. 63% of workers in the study
report high stress, fatigue and feelings of being out of control at work. 46% cite stress and personal relationships as the top reason for absences, not sickness or caregiving. >> from our parade of papers, "the omaha world herald," u.s. oil output is growing so quickly, it could eventually replace saudi arabia as the world's biggest producer of oil. u.s. production of crude and other fuels is on track to rise 7% this year or an average of 10.9 million barrels a day. and mika, what started in the dakotas is now spreading across the country. there's new ways to get oil out of the ground. and it is going to cause an energy revolution in this country. >> a lot of changes. "the philadelphia inquirer," apple introduces the ipad mini, but at $329, the asking price is more than expected. and more than many of its
competitors, apple claims 60% of the tablet market share, but tuesday's announcement created disappointment on the dow sending apple stock down to more than $20 a share. they need to fix iphones for free. they do. >> they do fix them for free. >> when they're unfixable, they should just replace them for free. don't start with me. >> i'm going to go back to a blackberry. >> because sometimes you have a problem with them sort of like the ipod, remember that? >> oh, yeah. >> mm-hmm. >> i predict. >> going to get you back on your blackberry. >> i predict. >> here's willie geist. >> come back home. >> come back home, baby. >> there's still ten of us left. >> i agree. i agree. >> right? >> yeah. >> 1955 was a good year. >> when you pay over $600 for something -- >> and if you need a web search -- >> use your computer. >> at most, 20 minutes.
that's at the most. that's a worst-case scenario. usually 10, 15. let's go to "politico" and mike allen with a look at the "playbook." good morning. >> good morning and welcome home. that was a great road trip. >> we're seeing clint eastwood back on the stage. it seems about six months ago we saw him at the rnc. this election cycle, american crossroads, the karl rove group, is up with a new ad that features mr. eastwood. let's take a look. >> in the last few years, america's been knocked down. 23 million people can't find full-time work. and we borrow $4 billion every single day, much of it from china. when someone doesn't get the job done, you've got to hold them accountable. obama's second term would be a re-run of the first and our country couldn't stand that. we need a turnaround fast, and that man is mitt romney. there's not much time left, and the future of our country is at stake. >> mike, i've got to say,
they're working clint eastwood hard. they've got that guy doing a lot of ads. >> give him a break. >> seven states, i understand, mike? >> that's right. that's right. and just as "morning joe" viewers were the first to see the president's agenda booklet yesterday, this is the first time that ad has been seen anywhere. and american crossroads said they made it after they realized that despite all the terrible media coverage of clint eastwood's appearance at the republican convention, that in the hall, it was very well received. stephen lawe who's the head of american crossroads was there and saw it. it got introduced to eastwood. so they taped this last month at his home in california. they focus grouped it in florida and ohio and said it tested off the charts with the voters they were trying to reach. so this is a little bit of vindication for clint eastwood, and it's a little vindication for the romney folks who put him on the convention program and got so much bad press for that.
>> this is in the state of ohio, a lot of people think that's where this race will be won. how close is it according to polls you're looking at? our last nbc poll had it five points. is it closer than that? >> that's probably about right. the romney folks will tell you that obama, the president, has an edge there. and here's something important to remember. there's been a lot of republican possibly irrational exuberance with the surge that mitt romney has seen in the polls. but here's a problem. mitt romney has not put away a single one of the most crucial states. and you get to be president by winning states, not debates. so mitt romney still has an electoral map problem. and glen tlesh and jonathan martin were the first ones to remind us of the analogy of the 2008 primaries. whatever else hillary clinton had, and she seemed to have momentum at the end, barack obama had the electoral map, and
that's how it's looking now, too. >> 13 days to go. mike allen, thanks so much. >> see you soon. coming up next, three weeks after he was fired by the red sox, bobby valentine unloads in an interview with bob costas, talking about david ortiz quitting on the team. mike barnicle's going to help us through this one when we come back. with the fidelity stock screener, you can try strategies from independent experts and see what criteria they use. such as a 5% yield on dividend-paying stocks. then you can customize the strategies and narrow down to exactly those stocks you want to follow. i'm mark allen of fidelity investments. the expert strategies feature is one more innovative reason serious investors are choosing fidelity. now get 200 free trades when you open an account.
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welcome back to "morning joe." it's 6:38 here on the east coast. game one of the world series begins tonight at 8:00 eastern time out in san francisco. tigers' ace justin verlander, the best pitcher in baseball, gets the start against the giants' left-hander barry zito. verlander giving up only zito, though, also allowed just two runs in his two postseason starts. and you're sticking with detroit in the series, mike barnicle. >> tigers in five. >> wow! in five. >> that's big. what do you think, willie? >> i'm going to go with the giants. >> are you really? >> you know, there's an interesting stat. everybody says they've just come off a seven-game series and the other team came off a sweep, they had all this rest. the three times that's happened in the last 30 years or so, the team that went to seven in the championship won the series. in other words, all that rest may not be a good thing for the
tigers. >> stat geek. >> to boston, yesterday john farrell spent the last two seasons as blue jays' manager, and he took that same job with the red sox yesterday. he'll be the manager in fenway agreeing to a three-year deal to become the 46th manager in red sox history. but it was boston's former manager, bobby v., bobby valentine, who found himself back in the headlines last night. in an interview with bob costas on the nbc sports network, valentine used his first public comments since the day he was fired to call out david ortiz who valentine says chose to miss playing time not because of an injury but because he knew the team was out of playoff contention. >> david ortiz came back after, you know, spending six weeks on a disabled list, we thought it was going to be only a week, and he got two hits the first two times up, drove in a couple runs. we were off to the races. and then he realized that, you know, this trade meant that we're not going to run this race. we're not even going to finish the race properly. and he decided no the to play
anymore. and i think at that time, you know, it was all downhill from there. >> ortiz was on the dl with a strained achilles from july 18th to late august. his last appearance of the season came the day before the red sox sent adrian gonzalez, carl crawford, josh beckett to the dodgers and ortiz never returned to the red sox lineup for the rest of the season. red sox gm has disputed valentine's account, telling reporters, "i wouldn't be trying to re-sign him if i had any concern about david's commitment to baseball or the red sox." what's going on here? why is bobby out speaking? >> you know, i'm surprised at his comments because no one was more supportive of bobby valentine in a tumultuous year than was david ortiz. and also, he had a severely strained achilles tendon. he's an older player. and he was advised by the medical staff not to risk rupturing the achilles tendon, especially after the big trade. what sense does it make having him rupture his achilles tendon and be out for a year, take it
easy, chill out. i'm surprised that bobby v. spoke to that. >> do you feel like this relationship was doomed from the start when he called out those guys at the beginning of the season, now he's doing it after he left? >> not doomed from the start, doomed from about june 1st, though. >> yeah, but, i mean, the fans were trashing him from the second day, willie. from the second day. they were trashing bobby v. the sports radio talk shows up in boston, mike, you know, mike was talking about this from the beginning. the same team that quit on tito, the same team that had the biggest collapse in september in the history of major league baseball, that same team was the team that bobby v. inherited, and two days into the season, the fans turned on bobby v. and were trying to blame him for everything. it was madness. absolute madness. this team was just a clubhouse of horrors.
>> let's see if they can do any better with a new manager. coming up next, mika's "must-read opinion pages." you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. [ male announcer ] this is steve. he loves risk. but whether he's climbing everest, scuba diving the great barrier reef with sharks, or jumping into the market, he goes with people he trusts,
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what's this? no, no, please, let me know. >> i'm reading, it's time now for the "must-read opinion pages." >> this is a must-read. >> sources say msnbc's mike barnicle was refused access to the president's club bathroom in a florida airport. >> willie geist, you were on the desk on this story. what happened? >> i have nothing for you this morning on that. except to say it's absolutely true. >> it's absolutely true. i was looking at this map on the
front of "the boston globe," mika. mark halperin, is mark still there? >> yeah. >> we can still have it. you said a week or two ago that you didn't think there were many scenarios for a 269/269 tie. if the president wins ohio and romney wins iowa and new hampshire, it's 269-269. if the map falls the way "the globe" is saying the map falls. and i think the des moines, iowa -- the "des moines register" story may have an impact there. we could still have a 269-269 tie here. >> it's possible, but if you look at where the campaigns think they're most likely to be able to break through in the nine battleground states, it's still, to me, most likely if romney wins, that he's going to actually end up sweeping in the hidden anti-obama vote that not too many people are picking up
but we can't rule out. still his most likely path is the three southern states, ohio plus one. and that does not get you to 269 scenario. again, i think right now that's far and away his most likely route if he's going to have a chance here. >> so if romney wins florida, north carolina and virginia, and he's headed that way, but loses ohio, he could lose nevada, but win iowa and new hampshire, and he ends up at 269. it's 269-269. >> well, and he needs colorado as well. >> right. which "the globe" has leaning romney's way. i felt that colorado was moving that direction for some time. that would be a fun night, wouldn't it, mika? 269-269. >> great. >> only followed by mitt romney winning the popular vote and barack obama winning the electoral college. >> "the new york times." >> that would be fun, too. >> yeah, a blast. >> and maybe seven toss-up states that we have recounts. >> january. >> february. >> been there. >> awful. >> you haven't had enough of
this campaign, joe? you want more? >> all right. >> we want a landslide. >> thomas friedman, our secret sauce, this will resonate with you, i think. we cannot have another term of partisan gridlock. we are heading into a world where the breakdown of the european supranational state system combined with the breakdown of the arab nations state system combined with climate change combined with a much greater global interdependence means that we will be more and more buffeted by problems that are too dangerous to ignore but too complicated and big to fix alone. and when a country finds itself in that kind of situation, there is no one thing it absolutely must do, and that is build resiliency. that will require a president who will dare to challenge the country to do big, hard things together, not just tack with the winds of public opinion, and it will require an electorate that
is ready to value and demand such leadership. and i think, you know, at the top of the show, you were talking about what's missing. and that is the truth. and that is also the asking of the american people to accept it and perhaps even stand up to it. >> you know, tom brings up the problems around the globe. he talked about europe. he talked about the collapse of the arab nations states. he could very well talk about the growing bubble in china. we live in this bipolar mindset where you've got a bipolar world. we're so used to, you know, it being a zero-sum game. if the united states rises, then the soviet union falls and vice versa. what's happening now is you have an international order that appears to be buckling in europe, across the middle east, in china. katty, this
missing during another administration, and i think it's missing here, too. we have to face facts. >> what happens is this discussion about health care which is the deficit problem, right? instantly, it becomes a discussion about, you know, red rags stuff about socialized medicine and death panels. you can't have a sensible conversation about the country's spending if you talk like that. coming up, nbc news political director and chief white house correspondent chuck todd. also the reverend al sharpton. plus "the new yorker" magazine endorses president obama. >> oh, my lord! are you kidding me? what? >> we'll have the editor, david remnick, here to explain how this could happen when "morning joe" continues. [ giggling ]
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just 13 days to go, mitt romney and president obama are making their final push through the battleground states. who has the momentum with the founder of real clear politics. up next, the editor of "the new yorker," david remnick on his shocking endorsement. seriously, wake the kids up. you're not going to want to miss this. we'll be back in just a minute. it's a new day.
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at a rally this morning in florida, president obama unveiled a newly published book that details his big plan for a second term. he has a book, and it's got his plan for a second term. and we just got footage. check it out. >> in this campaign, i've laid out a plan for jobs and middle-class security. and unlike mitt romney, i'm actually proud to talk about what's in it. share it with your friends. share it with your coworkers.
because my plan actually will move america forward. >> we like that plan. that's a good plan. >> welcome back to "morning joe." mike barnicle and katty kay are still with us along with mark halperin in chicago. >> david remnick said he was answering questions and answering e-mails at the same time. >> the best multitasker. >> he's always multitasking. >> he's a mom. >> joining us on set, the editor of "the new yorker," david remnick. it's a very nice endorsement. can i read it? >> from top to bottom. >> no, i won't do that, actually. here is the editor of "the new yorker's" endorsement reading in part this. obama did not always prove particularly adept at or engaged by the arts of retail persuasion and his deem of bipartisanship kol collided with the reality.
but a president who has been progressive, competent, rational, decent and at times visionary is a serious matter. the president has achieved a run of ambitious legislative, social and foreign-policy successes that relieved a large measure of the shame inflicted by the bush administration. every presidential election involves a contest over the idea of america. obama's america -- one that progresses, however falteringly, toward social justice, tolerance, and equality -- represents the future that this country deserves. >> david, which west side starbucks do you meet at? >> we don't have an editorial board. we don't do this like a newspaper. we're not separate. and there's basically a sense of the room, which was pretty clear -- >> yeah. >> -- and then somebody goes off and writes this with the help of everybody else. that's how it works. it's not as formal as a newspaper. >> so let me ask you, who got paid the bonus for being able to squeeze in, quote, the shame of the bush years?
>> do you take that personally, joe? >> i don't take it personally no more personally when i walked up and down the upper west side and these stands of people dressed like george bush in nazi year. i was very critical of george w. bush. what was the shame? let's talk about the shame of the bush years and then talk about the shame of the obama years. go ahead. >> you really want to do this? here we go. >> i'd love to. you guys are the ones that are still, four years later, trying to justify the re-election of a president by going back four years after vilifying george w. bush for eight years for conducting a war against terror. in much the same way that barack obama has done over the past four years. >> this is a nearly 4,000-word article. you're setting a context for when somebody comes into office, what he was given, the same way you would do four years from now
about whoever the preceding president was. >> that's pretty strong language. >> it is. >> let's talk about that shame. >> i think the shame of the bush years has to do with iraq. i think it has to do with a mission in afghanistan that went awry because iraq was ignored. it has to do with to be torture kinds of policies. you know what the litany is. and i watched you the other day -- >> i do. >> -- and you brought up quite reasonably predator drones. the magazine was also very early on investigative reporting about predator drones. this is not somebody -- this is not a magazine that is there to be for anybody. you have to put pressure on -- joe, hold on. you asked me a question, let me answer it. >> we've only got 15 minutes, david. >> give me one of them. >> i've given you a couple. i just want to respond to one of the issues so we can narrow down this argument. again, if you've watched this program, you know i've alls been hyper-critical of george w. bush. >> the article isn't about you. it's about bush. you asked me what the shame of
the presidency was. >> hold on a second. but you talk about torture. >> right. >> when you talk about torture and you talk about dick cheney, i guess what i find most offensive over the past two, three years -- and the drone argument's a good example -- is how progressives slam george w. bush and dick cheney and talked about the shame of the bush/cheney years while turning a blind eye, for the most part, to the shame of the obama years -- >> not this magazine. not at all. >> -- for following through on most of dick cheney's terror policies. >> not at all. not at all. not at all. i don't know who you're talking about. >> not at all what? i don't even know what that means. >> jane mayor wasmayer, the use predator drones and the reality and the tactics. joe, you asked me a question. >> gitmo? >> yes. >> it's still open. >> absolutely, and it's wrong and it's mentioned in this piece. so i don't know what you're arguing about. you read a small excerpt of this. the argument for obama is vis-a-vis who he's facing.
is he a stronger, more competent, more knowledgeable somebody rooted in certain values and principles than his opponent? that's the choice americans have. >> okay. >> did romney seem to you the other night somebody deeply competent in, deeply fluent in, somebody who has a firm compass on foreign policy issues or not? that's the question americans have to face. >> okay. >> same thing with economic issues. same thing with social issues. >> so the answer to that, no, mitt romney wasn't. we said it here on the show. yesterday for three hours. just as i don't believe barack obama's competent when it comes to getting people back to work. but my larger point is on the torture issue or on the bush/cheney approach to terrorism, whether you talk about tripling the number of troops in afghanistan, whether you talk about drone warfare, whether you talk about killing
people in countries indiscriminately where we haven't even declared war. if you talk about gitmo remaining open. listen, we can have a debate over whether we have to be clear-eyed realists and be this ruthless in this new war. fine. and i'm not going to say that you hate the constitution and you want to shred the constitution, and you subvert american values. i'm not just talking you here. >> yeah. >> if you agree with what dick cheney, george w. bush and barack obama have chosen to do since 9/11. i just find the hypocrisy from the left galling. >> you may, but, in fact -- >> i should. >> but you and i -- i don't. you and i actually agree on the issues that you're talking about in their specificity. whether you talk about predator drones -- i have a big problem, it's mentioned in the piece, it is mentioned in the piece. so, you know, what are we talking about? the left. as if there's this massive bloc of opinion. >> you know what we're talking
about, david. if you want to pretend that you don't, then we can go ahead and just talk about this piece. >> this is a -- this is a -- >> and i suggest we do that because you're playing a game, so go ahead. >> i'm not playing a game. >> no, you are. let's play make-believe, david, that the left has been ideologically consistent, and all of their vicious attacks on george w. bush and dick cheney for doing many of the same things that barack obama's doing, let's just pretend that that hasn't happened. so go ahead. >> i didn't see barack obama take the united states to war the way the bush/cheney administration did. >> he was a state senator. >> i saw the obama -- obama was against that war from the first. he was right about it. in fact, i was wrong. many people were wrong about that. in fact, the majority of the country in the polls were wrong about that. barack obama was right about it. and as president, he brought us home from that war honorably and decently. not an easy thing to do. >> so the aim time line george w. bush had. let me ask you -- >> come on.
do you think that's a proud record george bush had? >> no, it's not. >> what's wrong with pointing that out in. >> are you going to let me talk? this is so sad, david. let's talk about afghanistan. >> yeah. >> are you guys glad that barack obama tripled the number of troops in afghanistan, which we all opposed around this table, and kept american troops there fighting and dying after we all knew -- >> yet again -- yet again -- here. if i can answer the question. barack obama comes into office. we're at war in afghanistan. it is a mess. and you're faced with all kinds of horrendous problems. we may leave in 2014, and you may find, as dexter filkins in his report in "the new yorker" said a civil war that follows. there could be horrendous tragedy there. no one is saying -- and certainly not in this magazine -- i don't know what the left says. i don't know what the whole grouping of what the left is, but we may end up leaving in 2014, as we should, not having done or accomplished or able to accomplish what it is we hoped
we would do, which is to have a stand-up, ready afghan army willing to fend off a civil war. >> we're not going to have that right. >> what can we do? can we stay till 2030? 2040? was there an answer to that by mitt romney the other night? >> was there an answer by barack obama? he wanted to triple the number of troops years ago. you act indignant. >> i'm indignant only because i came on here -- you asked me about an endorsement of the president. within two seconds, you leapt down my throat about the left. and i'm here to say that, you know, that the piece is discussing a choice between two men, two sets of principles, two ideas. the piece goes deeply into what the flaws of barack obama are, have been politically. >> right. >> on any number of issues. >> and i'm just keying in, you brought up george w. bush taking this country to war.
obviously a mistake. i was wrong about it. you said you were wrong about it. >> absolutely. >> like you said, 75% of americans were wrong about it. so as we move forward, so if that has to do with, quote, the shame of the bush years, we then have to look at an example of where barack obama had a decision to make about war. and that's why i asked you -- and i'm not sure what "the new yorker's" position was on that, and i'd like to know, about the choice the president had to make in realtime when faced with some very difficult choices. and the president chose to triple the number of troops in afghanistan and continue that war. >> in an attempt to -- the surge in troops in afghanistan was an attempt to stabilize the afghan army, the afghan police so that we could leave. has this been a success? it remains to be seen. i'm afraid it's not going to be a success. dexter filkins published a huge piece in our magazine weeks ago and spent weeks and weeks in afghanistan as a veteran
reporter of that place and is deeply worried that we're going to have -- you're going to see the taliban resurgent there. you're going to have a terrible civil war. you don't know. but the question that you're faced with is what to do? can america afford financially in terms of treasure and blood to stay in afghanistan forever? i don't think so. >> so i hope you don't mind, david, me asking you tough questions because i know you can answer the questions. let's move on. and i brought this up earlier. and again, we criticize both sides. we're four years after lehman brothers. neither side's talking about breaking up the big banks. >> right. >> too big to fail has gotten even bigger. >> right. >> the president, i would guess you would agree with me, that not only has mitt romney fallen short on this, the president's fallen short on this. do you agree with that or not? >> i think that financial regulation has fallen short. i think the capacity of both of president and congress to put in strong financial regulation has fallen short. >> should we break up the banks? >> no. you know, i'm not a financial expert to say break up the
banks, not break up the banks. it did seem, though, that the left, as you say, krugman and economists like that wanted to see banks nationalized. they wanted to see banks nationalized. that didn't turn out to be the case, and it didn't turn out to be maybe even necessary. did you want to see banks nationalized? >> no, of course not. >> no. >> but paul krugman said he didn't want to see banks nationalized either. >> well, yes, he did. i have to say -- >> i'm saying, though, paul krugman said that but then later on he said he didn't say that. >> well, that's a problem for paul krugman, not me. >> i know. mika, do you have a question for david? >> no, i actually just think -- >> katty. i'm sorry. finish. >> i have a question. i want to know whether you had a serious consideration about endorsing mitt romney. >> i think he's pretty far from our whole house from endorsing, but we thought a lot about him. i think one of the best profiles i ever read about mitt romney which was extremely fair-minded was by nick lemon. about four or five weeks ago. this is also a magazine that
when barack obama lost the first debate very clearly, we weren't deluded about that. the cover of this magazine was mitt romney debating an empty chair. i think it's possible to have politics in a magazine but also to see things clear and be tough-minded about power that's in power. and we have been about barack obama, whether it's on afghanistan, whether it's on finance, whether it's on predator drones. which is something that concerns you. which is why i'm surprised that you're so shocked that we would set the context for obama's presidency, which is you follow somebody. you have a set of problems. you have a set of disasters in this case. that you have to deal with. and financial deregulation, for example, we know did not begin under george bush. bill clinton was responsible for a lot of it. >> and i screwed up with the vote on that myself back in '99. i'm not shocked, mika. obviously, people tune into the show because they like debate. >> yeah.
>> we've got great respect for david. i love "the new yorker." so people at home, just relax. everything's fine. we like each other very much. have great respect for each other. but this is, though, as you know, even before barack obama was elected and even though i was hyper-critical of george w. bush, what did i tell you? you watch. he's never going to shut down gitmo. >> yeah. >> he didn't, and i think it's shameful. >> what i was going to say is that, and i wonder if in the bulk of the piece which we should just make sure that you don't sort of address the fact that a lot of the policies that this president has put in place or has continued are bush policies in terms of their -- >> in terms of security. >> -- in terms of security. because i think that is where i understand your immediate reaction when you zoned in on the words "the shame of the bush presidency." because when you get into office -- >> mika, i think that's for better or for worse. that there are some policies -- and obama has said this -- when
he came in, he saw in terms of security issues, that some things were right, and some things were deeply wrong. some things were changed, and some things weren't. and some of those things that needed changing that weren't, "the new yorker" has written about rather forcefully. >> i think that's what caused the reaction. obviously, i've listened. you have been incredibly critical of the bush administration. >> i know. >> it's not a right/left issue with joe, but we try and look for the transparent, the truth, fairness of the statement. >> any more than i call you the right, you know, i would get my back up about being called the left. i think there's a hell of a lot of nuance and complication in this. >> it's interesting. >> what disturbed me about romney the other night, not that i was shocked, unfortunately, but disturbing about him on foreign policy is that his -- he was -- he looked like a guy speaking right up to the edge of his knowledge. he did not seem fluent, stable
in these issues. >> i think a lot of us felt that way. >> this job is the commander in chief. and he looked like a guy who had prepped the night before and was kind of just filled in on these issues. >> by the way, i do, just to clarify, i do consider "the new yorker" to be a leader in shaping opinion on the left, just like i consider charles krauthammer to be a leader shaping opinion on the right. you may not like that analogy. i consider it a compliment. i think you guys -- i think on both sides. >> but there's a difference between an opinion magazine and one that's dominated by reporting. >> right. >> "the nation," it's got reporting, but it's mainly an opinion magazine. in my eyes, "the new yorker" is something else. when jane mayer is reporting on predator drones, she's seeing what are the military ethical questions involved. how jane votes is not a primary concern in that piece.
>> yeah. mark halperin, i'm sure you have a question about the editorial, the bush years, or jane mayer. go ahead. >> david, just paint for us the most optimistic vision you see of an obama second term. he gets elected in a couple weeks. what happens to make his second term as successful or more successful than the first term? >> well, that's a great question. and i think, you know, and it's been said on this show any number of times, in the campaign, that has not always been the best articulated thing. and i think this happens a lot, people running for re-election. they're obsessed with attacks on their own first term. they're defending their own record. and their capacity to set out a broad vision for a second term is hampered. but to answer that question, i would say that certainly a jobs program would be essential. i think a deficit reduction plan, a grand bargain is absolutely necessary.
on foreign policy, a continuation and a ratcheting down of afghanistan even though it's a tragic situation in every way that you say. syria remains a disaster. the iran nuclear program is still progressing. and that has to come to a resolution. and remains a huge danger. so that's half a dozen things right off the bat. >> you know what's very interesting? that we just had a serious, substantive, civilized discourse about war, about this country at war in iraq and afghanistan for 18 minutes. that's longer than both of these candidates running for president have had similar discussion. >> the entire discussion was tactical. it was one man wanting to show that he's not a nut and that he's going to tack to the center and signal to a certain kind of voter that he's looking to get. you know, the cover this week in "the new yorker" is a takeoff on
a norman rockwell painting. should i hold it up? >> we understand you heard from the rockwell estate. >> it will be okay. if i can hold it up. it's a famous rockwell painting or a takeoff on a rockwell painting. in the rockwell painting, somebody's girlfriend's names are being etched off by a tattoo artist. here it's one issue after another. who is mitt romney? what does he really want? this is a guy who, in massachusetts, his singular achievement was a terrific health care program, adored by the state of massachusetts. he runs away from it. he's running -- if he was such a great governor of the state of massachusetts, why is he going to lose so badly in massachusetts? >> yep. >> why? bill clinton won arkansas. arkansas's not exactly a dark blue state. >> right. it's a good question. and following up on mike's point about a debate about war, i think one of my great frustrations has been -- you know, i always thought, well, when the democrats, when the
president, when barack obama's the president, he's going to have to be more responsible on these issues. he's going to see the first briefing that's called the oh, you know what briefing, and he's going to understand that dick cheney and george w. bush were not quite so crazy. but what's happened over the past four years is depressing to me because you have democrats that seem to be taking the old republican line and becoming hawkish, dropping drone am bos in countries where we haven't even declared war. and then you have the republicans -- i almost wish they'd be hypocrites and switch back to being noninterventionist. you then have republicans saying we're going to outflank him even further on the right. and so you have basically the war party versus the hyperwar party. and it's just spun out of control over the past four years. >> you say it's the war party, but we've come home from iraq. we're coming home from afghanistan. we haven't jumped into syria. >> let's hope we're coming home
from afghanistan, we did go into libya. >> we did which was a success. and very limited -- very, very limited mission. >> let's hope it's a success moving forward. >> that's a bigger question. you're absolutely right. >> let's hope. my problem is i would love there to at least be a party that challenges the tripling of number of troops in afghanistan instead of saying oh, we need to send more, and we need to stay longer. it seems to me to be insanity. just enough. >> okay. that was fantastic. fascinating. mark halperin, thank you very much. >> thank you, mark. >> stay with us. >> go back to your e-mails now. still ahead, nbc political director chuck todd along with the reverend al sharpton. and later, he was awarded the medal of bravery in afghanistan, and now he's telling his story. former marine dakota meyer will be here with his new book. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. [ man ] ring ring... progresso this reduced sodium soup
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you mentioned the navy, for example. and that we have fewer ships than we did in 1916. governor, we also have fewer horses and bayonets. and the 1980s are now calling to ask for their foreign policy back. >> mitt romney is so rich, he hired extra housekeepers just to launder his money. >> debate zingers. >> welcome back to "morning joe." 27 past the hour. joining us from chicago, nbc news chief white house correspondent and political director and host of "the daily rundown," chuck todd. and here in new york, the host of msnbc's "politics nation," reverend al sharpton. reverend al, good to have you on. >> morning. >> chuck, are we oversimplifying, or is it -- >> 49-48. >> the great tim russert would say, ohio, ohio, ohio, is it really ohio, ohio, ohio, ohio? i don't see how either guy
wins -- >> without ohio. >> -- without ohio. >> well, can i just tell you, there is a fairly legitimate path for the president to win without ohio. >> okay, talk about it. >> and all it means -- it's wisconsin, iowa, new hampshire and colorado. if i told you that barack obama won -- but no, let's see. let's break down the states here a minute. wisconsin -- >> he should win. >> -- a state that hasn't gone republican since reagan. >> '84. >> new hampshire, a state john kerry carried. iowa, a state al gore carried. nevada, a state we know that hispanics basically probably put it into the democratic column. so i could make a case here that we're talking -- that the pivot state could end up being colorado. when you look at -- so what i'm saying is is that -- and this has got to be the frustrating thing for romney, right, for boston. you have this national momentum. you have this feeling that,
okay, if this were -- if we actually did elect, by the popular vote, i think that there would be this feeling that okay, romney's in better shape than the president. but when you start doing the various scenarios and you start going down state by state, boy, is it precarious for romney, right? >> the only thing i would say is -- >> that's been his problem the whole time. >> the only thing i'd say is -- and i think you're right. i think the president wins nevada, wisconsin, he probably will win new hampshire and could win iowa. >> less confident about new hampshire. >> less confident in new hampshire. and colorado, democrats in colorado have been telling me for months, they are so frustrated. they can't get the president over 47%. 48%. >> right. >> even when mitt romney was having a horrific september, the president just couldn't break through. that's why the only state i'm really skeptical there is colorado. for some reason, the president
just can't break 50 there. and democrats are the ones who are telling me that. >> no, i don't disagree with you. and i think colorado is one of those -- look, colorado and virginia are both sort of sitting in the same place for the president. and they both -- the difference between 50 and 48 is the difference between what is the percentage of the electorate? it's two aspects for the president. both the same. what's the percentage of the electorate that's not white, right? that's number one. and number two, what's the gender gap? and in both states, virginia and colorado, more so than any, have been the two states that the obama campaign has pushed and pushed hard on the abortion issue. and when you look at where romney's tried to fix it, in particular on the air, there's that one ad he's been running, i've seen it in northern virginia. i'm pretty sure it's aired in the denver market as well where this woman is saying boy, i thought mitt romney was radical on abortion. i looked up his record.
it seems like everything's going to be okay, but it's a reminder that those two states in particular, ask michael bennet, a guy who some say shouldn't have won in 2010, and he'll tell you he won on the backs of two voting groups, women and hispanics. >> so what is it -- obama in the latest cbs/quinnipiac poll is plus 5 in ohio. there's been movement. what is it that's been working for romney in ohio that's dependent on the car industry and has benefited from it? i'm just wondering what is resonating on team romney's side? chuck? >> i think it's what's not resonating on obama's side. and don't forget, ohio's always -- look, one of the things that we go through messaging, this or that, this campaign, i think a lot of us have thought it was always going to break down into a simple game of demographics. what's the percentage of the electorate that's going to be white in a particular state, and what percent's going to be
hispanic, and then what are the margins going to be inside those voting groups? and ohio's been defying gravity for the president. he's been overperforming with white men because of the auto bailout. he's been -- but as you've seen romney make gains in these national polls, all of his gains have come in key aspects of white working-class part of the electorate. and the last place that he's still trying to pick up that part when you go state by state is ohio. but ohio's been catching up to the national number, and i think that that's what you've seen a little bit. >> and reverend, that's what we're hearing internally from the campaigns. katty just said she was with the romney team, and they had a couple of nights of even tracking. there are other internal polls that actually have romney ahead by one or two. our poll has the president up by five. but it's getting tighter. we don't know. i mean, maybe the president's up by three. maybe it's dead even. we don't know. what's the message for the president? i mean, ohio has to be his
firewall. what's the president's message? 13 days left. it's almost like that clock's running out. and you've got a ten-point lead. and you're holding, you know, the basketball. what's the president's message? >> well, i think his message in ohio and his message nationally is going to be compare me and compare what i've done and compare what i will do and my values to my opponent. and also the big-picture thing. the supreme court. he's going to have all romney if he's elected, a supreme court pick. do you trust me to make that pick, or do you trust my opponent? i think when people see what the options are, you have everything in the supreme court schedule from women's right to choose to affirmative action to voting rights. there's a lot of things that will be generational in terms of its decisions. and
and you're saying who do i volt for? >> let me just say, and i want you to follow up on that, as a conservative guy, i like john roberts, i do, i like alito. i'm a conservative guy. i agree with you completely. we've got a 5-4 court. this is a choice over the next four years that will impact the court for a generation. so what you're saying is not hyperbole. >> no, it's not. i sat at the abigail fisher versus university of texas arguments a couple weeks ago on affirmative action. and as a conservative, you should like those guys. as one that is not a conservative, i'm working 19 hours a day because if we get one more of those guys, the last half century of civil rights and women's rights -- >> it sounds like we're about to go into hyperbole, hyperbole alert. >> let me get there first. >> let's measure. >> the last half century of a lot of things could be at risk. that's not hyperbole. i mean, you've got a lot of stuff that people like me grew
up fighting that could get wiped out in the next couple of sessions. it's very serious. >> roe v. wade. >> section 5 of the voting rights act. >> they're not going to overturn it overnight, but there would be a chipping away and move more towards a states' rights issue. affirmative action. >> right. could be gone. could be gone. at the gut -- the last decision made that race could voluntarily be a factor, we may see this where it couldn't even be considered now, couldn't even be mentioned, which would have ramifications not only on higher education and could be carried over in employment and contracts, et cetera, et cetera. section 5 of the voting rights act could be gone. this is going to be looked at by this court. so we're not just talking about the next four years. we're talking about generational here. >> chuck, let's talk -- >> which is why i buy "the new yorker." >> exactly. exactly. so chuck, talking to both
campaigns, do you get the sense, circling back to ohio, that internally they do understand this is a toss-up now, that it's either tied or one or two points in the president's favor? >> i can tell you that when it comes to ohio, there's still a difference of opinion about where the race is a little bit. there is acknowledgment on democratic side of the aisle that the race has tightened in ohio. but it has been interesting to me, even behind the scenes, even when you feel like you've got the jumper cables, you know, on them and that if they lie, it will buzz them and they both are insistent they're winning. and they seem -- it seems to be very important for them behind the scenes, not just out on the campaign stump, to avoid this aspect that they're losing, that they can't do this. particularly on the romney side.
they want to -- i think they believe momentum. they want to look like get on this bandwagon, get going. but it seems to be very important to the obama campaign that the perception is that they don't like this perception out there that this might be a toss-up race. they want -- they think -- they push back on that and say yes, it's close, but we're winning. i'd rather be us than them. each side wants -- and i just find that interesting. it's like they're both worried that if for some reason that gravity will just drag them down. it's like they're concerned that if for some reason the perception grows or they add to it and all the -- and some polling evidence comes out that drags them down and that it will cost them some small slice of voting. >> chuck, mark halperin referenced -- i forget exactly how he phrased it, but the potential in ohio for a hidden an anti-obama vote that is very difficult to get to for
pollsters. do you think such a hidden anti-obama vote exists in ohio or elsewhere? >> why don't we just put it on the table. are we talking about the bradley effect here? >> yeah. >> talking about working-class white voters who aren't going to be honest to pollsters? >> the lack of who has cell phones and who doesn't. that skews polling as well. polls are so all over the map. we're all so obsessed about pressing 538 and real clear politics, it's driving everybody nuts like i've never seen before. >> chuck, bradley effect? >> no, not by an incumbent. >> i mean, it's possible, but i think that -- i'm hearing more about people concerned about the voting machines and all. and this whole thing with romney's son. i'm hearing a lot of that. >> tag. >> tag. >> you watch. pat buchanan's going to carry cleveland. it's going to be just like palm
beach. >> there we go. there we go. >> david, thank you for being with us. david, i'm surprised, it seems to me that the second and third debates haven't had the impact -- >> that's what i was going to ask chuck why. >> -- that the first debate had. >> i'll tell you. >> mitt romney was just reading scripts in his head the other night. >> needless to say -- >> an important nugget, david, an important nugget, you were asking, do you know, it was the longest period between first and second debates since 1988. that is why that first debate had -- correct. >> all right, chuck todd, thank you. we'll see you at 9:00 on "the daily rundown." david remnick, thank you as well. what a day. the new issue of "the new yorker" is out right now. reverend al, stay with us. >> i love it, actually. i love it. >> we'll take a closer look at who has the momentum in the decisive battleground states with the editor and co-founder
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47 past the hour. welcome back to "morning joe." with us from chicago, co-founder and executive editor of real clear politics, tom beven. good to have you on the show. >> good to be with you. >> we're looking at trends in the polling which i think could potentially make a difference especially when we're talking about ohio. >> it's all about momentum, isn't it? >> absolutely. what are we seeing in ohio? >> well, we're seeing in ohio what we see nationally. obama has lost altitude there recently since the first debate. but to chuck's point earlier, he's sort of defying a little gravity where he's lost four points nationally and at least that much or more in some of
these other battleground states, he's only lost about 2.5 in ohio. we've got polls that show this race one, two, three points. so it's tightened considerably and remains tight. >> tom, quickly before we move on to wisconsin, your clear clear average is cited in the media all the time. how do you decide which polls make the cut? how do you decide which ones go into that average? >> well, we take a look at all of the sort of publicly available polling that are out there. and we're obviously trying to, you know, especially as we get closer to election day, we're trying to update them with the most recent polling data available. so we get the best possible snapshot of where a race stands at any point in time. >> okay. so wisconsin, you're looking at, what are you seeing at right there in terms of a margin? >> the president's still got a small lead there, but it's closed dramatically. again, this is a state that, you know, he won by 13.5 points four years ago. and is now down in the 2.5
range. and i think one of the things that republicans are looking at there, i mean, they just test drove their get out the vote machine in june with the scott walker recall. i think that's contributing to the fact that that race is tight. and also the fact that, you know, i think the paul ryan pick is helping romney in that state. but, again, it's very, very tight. >> all right. let's look at iowa. obviously, we know what happened four years ago. what's the trend there? >> again, i mean, very tight. you know, we've got one poll showing romney up there by a point. one poll showing it tied. this is a very tight situation in iowa. one thing i'd mention, chuck mentioned sort of the electoral college. interesting fact here is that in 13 elections since 1960, wisconsin and iowa have voted the same way in all but two races. in '76, iowa went for jerry ford by a point, wisconsin went for carter by a point and a half. and in 2004, iowa went for george bush by 10,000 votes. and wisconsin went for john kerry by 11,000 votes.
those states have historically tended to vote together. so if romney is able to break through in one of those states, it may mean that he could break three this both. >> another state chuck has been talking about, colorado. what do the trend lines look like there? >> well, romney's up. a little bit. we have some -- this is a state we have -- one poll showing obama up by three points. another poll showing romney up. balance of the evidence now shows that romney has a very small lead there. i hi as chuck mentioned in ohio, in -- colorado, you mentioned earlier, joe, same thing. both democrats and republicans feel like they are winning. and -- it is a situation where, you know, it is going to come down the latino vote, 21%. in colorado. also, you know, suburban vote which is where lit come down to in a lot of the swing states. >> did you know also this year will be extraordinarily close. the closest election most likely since 2000. and the states are in elections like that even new hampshire which, of course, won the
presidencies for george w. bush, makes a big difference. in new hampshire, one poll that actually has the president up by nine. all the other polls showed this deadlocked. >> yeah. i mean, the -- university of new hampshire poll looks like a bit of an outlier. the rest of the polling evidence we have seen in this state, that state, shows it is a -- you know, a tie race. there is a poll showing romney up a couple of points. a poll showing obama up a couple. razor's edge in new hampshire. electoral college scenario with owe bogey the pivot point. if obama wins ohio romney will have to win wisconsin and colorado and either iowa or new hampshire. new hampshire is definitely in the mix here. >> david was saying in the last segment that we are looking at polls obsessively in a way he has never seen before. if you were a voter trying to
make sense of polls, what's the most sensible way to look at all the polling information that's out there? >> that's a setup question. >> not to make this a -- >> i'm thinking more about like how often should you look after which events should you look, should you take a lee-day span, that kind of thing. >> well, we would suggest you look multiple times every day. no, look. >> come on, paul. >> look, not -- not to get fixate order any individual poll result which is what happens partisans like to grab on to, you know, result and say, well, my guy is up two points here. my guy is up three points there. i mean, look at the balance of the evidence which is why i think the quick politics averages are such a useful tool because they sort of balance out any of the dash results out there and look for trends. i mean, look for -- you know, how does one poll compare to where that same poll was, you know, two weeks ago. apples to apples. the other thing that i think is important to look at, too, you're valuating these
individual swing states. look at the president's vote share. and joe, you mentioned this about colorado. the problem for the president, he has leads in the swing states, two, three points. problem is he's not over 50% in any of them. he is stuck at 48%. 48.5%. 49% and the question is, you mother, as polls come in, is he going to be able to get to the critical 50% plus 1. >> that's what -- you know, you -- you look at all the polls and you have to say advantage president obama. that said, if -- i'm just telling you -- >> right. >> if i'm 13 days out and i have read my own polls and they are always horrifying but if i'm 13 days out and i'm the incumbent and president of the united states for four years and i'm still at 47%, 48%, i'm sweating going -- oh, my god, how do i get from 48% to 50%? what can i do in 13 days that i haven't done in four years? >> i don't think even reverend al disagrees with you.
>> no, i don't. i think it will come down to turnout. now you have to operate on the ground. it is a ground game and i think this is going to come down to now who can bring the vote out. i think the president has a good operation. >> if the president wins, the president will win, exactly -- he will get out the vote. >> check those polls on real clear politics multiple times a day. >> tom, i checked -- i'm twice every ten minutes. >> i just hit refresh. >> "politics nation" coming up. advice for the gutsy girl. former editor of "cosmo," kate white will be here with a career guide for women. i don't spend money
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good morning. it is 8:00 on the east coast. 5:00 on the west coast. time to wake up, everybody, as you take a live look at new york city. back with us on set, mike barnic barnicle. in chicago, mark halperin. >> good time to be following campaigns if you like candidates that say nothing. they go out on the campaign trail. most important election ever. ever! in the history of like all time. they say nothing. they say nothing. >> i'm for the middle class. what about you? >> i'm for the middle class. come on, man. >> i want --
>> against the middle class and against military. >> that would be different. i'm against the middle class and -- i mean, come on. they are all saying the same thing, aren't they? >> well -- actually, i think you have more of a clearer vision of what the president wants to do than mitt romney. >> i'm going to go back to reading the story here. >> yes, i'm sure you are. >> if that's your take, i'm going to page 6. >> no. okay. >> mark halperin has been asking for weeks for specifics from the president about what he would do about new policies he would propose over the next four years and put out this 20-page booklet. anticipating a look at the second term would be like. i will read it. one line from the new york times right out. quote the document contains no new proposals. >> oh, wow. >> not a new word in it. >> at least, mark halperin, we can find out what he is going to do by what he says editorial board meetings because -- this
has been -- forever. you go to the editorial board meetings and you talk and you talk to the editorial board and they decide whether they will endorse you and then they tell the people what you told them. right? that's how it works. right? >> it is great way to learn things, particularly in the battleground states with a lot of serious newspapers who get a chance with an extended conversation of the president. he can lay out his views for the readers. >> fantastic. the president goes on "the view" and goes on "inside edition" or all these other shows and after refusing to be interviewed by the des moines registrar, he says i will talk to you but you can't tell your readership what i said to you. what's going on here? these guys are so insulated. put bubble wrap on them. romney at least spoke to them. >> yeah. i mean, i think -- probably will be a blip in this campaign. symbolism for people on the
right certainly but also for a lot of people in the media is not particularly good. the notion of doing an end-board conversation that's basically off the record to try to win the important endorsement. that's one of the newspaper endorsements in this country that still really matters. so to do it in a secret way, it is interesting and unusual and it does speak to the fact that the president is somewhat cloistered. should say he's -- again, spending quality time with brian williams over the next couple of days. and -- brian has a very important interview. i don't think that based on my conversations with obama folks yesterday, i don't think the president is going to be doing very many interviews like the kind he will do with brian over the next couple of days. that "des moines registrar" thing, i don't think we saw it play out completely. the paper said it won't impact the endorsement but i think there will be a lot of talk in iowa. >> we will talk about it more -- talk more about it this morning. wonder how "globe" editors would handle that.
>> final sprint before election day and candidates' travel plans tell you everything you need to know about where the race will be decided. the nbc polite can a team puts the number of remaining tossup states at seven with a total of 89 electoral votes up for grabs. today alone the white house contenders and their running mates will hit at least four of those states from reno, nevada, to davenport, iowa. a single point separates the two candidates among the likely voters. that's according to the latest abc news/"washington post" tracking poll. mitt romney looked to claim momentum with 13 days to go until the final votes are cast. >> these debates have supercharged our campaign p there's no question about it. we are see morgue and more enthusiasm, more and more support. i had to look at the president's campaign as well through the eyes of those debates. and -- well, you know, he's -- he has been reduced to trying to defend care terkerri walsh acto
"sesame street" and word games of various kinds. then misfired attacks after one another. we have gone through four debates now with the vice presidential debate and my debates. we haven't heard an agenda from the president. that's why his campaign is taking on water and our campaign is a full speed glad we we have come up an ad for this condition. it is called romnesia. if have you come down with a case of romnesia, if you can't seem to remember the policies on your website or the promises that you have been making over the six years that you have been running for president, if you can't even remember when you said last week, don't worry. obama care covers pre-existing
conditions. we can fix you up. we can cure this disease! >> okay. you ever have that? hello. >> i'm a little depressed right now. i wonder if barack obama thought five years ago when he knew he was going to have to sacrifice so much time away from his children and his wife, a terrible decision for him and make all the horrific personal sacrifices one has to make to be president of the united states, if he could imagine in a million years, five years later, that his re-election would depend on giving speeches like that 13 days out. am i the only one depressed here? >> it is so far from what it was in 2008. right? when he was talking at this stage in the campaign two weeks before the election and he had all of that momentum and talking about all the things he was going to do in the country. that was an agenda campaign. he was promising to change the
way washington works. change the way politics works here. now i guess chicago has said hey, we think this romnesia idea is your ticket to re-election in the last two weeks. i think you are right. it is sort of depressing. if that's what it comes down to. maybe it has gone -- maybe it has gone on too long. maybe we got to the stage where there's nothing left of importance to say. they are so scared they don't want to say -- there is a lot to say. >> that would be the case, katty, if they told us what they were going to do over the next four years. i mean, i have gotten to the point now where i long for the days where he tells us he will heal the earth and stop the oceans from rising. at least he was saying something that you could laugh at him. you can mock him for these grandiose ideas but at least they were ideas. mitt romney says he has a plan for the -- to a plan for next four years. five-point plan, it is as empty as barack obama. is his agenda for the next four
years, nobody is talking about the future. nobody. >> first of all, we should -- every day here issue a warning to people watching with their twitter feed ready to go. these are observations, not endorsements, so -- get off twitter as we observe what we are talking about here. to your point, this has been one of the most depressing campaigns. in the context of what's going on in this country, problems face thing country, both sides, both sides, are ignoring every day obstacles that people confront. somewhere out there today, there's someone, multiple numbers of people, five, ten people working in a small factory, who are going to lose their jobs over the next year, year and a half to someone with an ipad. technology is going to steal their jobs. and no one is talking about things like that. no one is talking about the anxiety that's out there due to the economy. millions and millions of people feel every day mika, it continues, look on the front page of "the financial times."
u.s. results raise fresh fears for the economy. we all hope the economy is turning around but -- for so many people out there who are struggling, it just seems like this is going on and on. you have friends. we all have friends that, you know, they are -- late 40s. 50s. that lost a job. they just don't have any reason to believe that they are going to get their job back. >> i think the -- reset for them is going to be in some -- some cases devastating because it is never going to be what they had before. that's -- the thing we haven't seen in a lifetime. >> exactly. it is also because things -- bubble got bigger and bigger and bigger. so -- there is somewhat of a -- reset that's necessary if we are going to actually do things right. >> you have to wonder if the international financial mark are looking at what's happening in this campaign. looking at the prospect of what -- take the balance sheet of all america needs to do on energy, immigration, education. entitlement reform.
you know. cutting spending, raising taxes. look at what the politicians seem capable of doing or at least what they are talking about doing which is almost nothing. and you wonder if the financial markets aren't at some point going to say wow, you know, if america can't do this thing right, if it can't do the easy things right which is get over the fiscal cliff or step back from the fiscal cliff, how is it going to do the big things? how is it going to do the big things the country needs to stop those kind of headlines in the financial times? >> mark halperin, you are in chicago. obviously the president's campaign team as well as mitt romney's campaign team made the calculation a long time ago they weren't going to make tough choices. they weren't going to make this a campaign that would -- a mandate campaign. so what happens -- let's say the president wins. and gets re-elected. you are in chicago. what does chicago say is mandate is the next four years? what's his mandate? what's mitt romney's mandate? figure it out they have to run
30-second better ads? what's the mandate? >> they are both going to face real challenges and unprecedented. fiscal cliff will be an instant challenge particularly in f the p wins. you will say the house will stay in republican hands. the senate at this point looks like it will stay in democratic hands. that means it is -- if the president wins its absolute status quo and if you are john boehner or even if you are mitch mcconnell it is still a minority and you can say yeah, you won. you beat it from their point of view, weak candidate. and we still have our house majority and can block things in the senate. it is going to be very difficult for either of these guys giving the candidates they are running to be a strong enough president to send the? to the markets and send the signals to the american people and in lame duck session or in january. yeah. i won so now we are going to do things my way and deal with all of the complexity of the fiscal cliff, taxes and spending and revenue. and medium and short-term deficit reduction. >> so --s this isn't a show
about nothing. you disagree, obviously, ideologically at many levels with the president's position on the issues. what should mitt romney be saying? what is it that he's not saying that is frustrating thank you most this morning, that is making it very hard to cover the story, without just throwing your hands in the air and saying come on, they are both not saying anything? what should he be saying that would make him -- >> i said it repeat lid. we have a fiscal cliff. we are about to fall off of a fiscal cliff. very simple. medicare is going bankrupt. >> do you think he should go on the campaign trail? that's what you would do? >> but -- >> and say this? >> you don't start at 13 days out. you start it a year out and say this is what my campaign is about. i talked about it. we are going to have to cut the growth of medicare, medicaid, social security, we are going to have to slash defense spending. we are going to have to stop rebuilding other countries and start rebuilding our own countries. it would have been mice if they followed john and say we have to break the banks. banks keep getting bigger and bigger. nobody -- can you believe this? four years after the crash,
nobody is talking about the fact that too big to fail has gotten bigger? nobody on either side is talking about breaking up the big banks. nobody on either side is talking about breaking up the military industrial complex. nobody on either side is talking about breaking up the big government. everything is getting bigger. the banks are getting bigger. the military is getting bigger. government is getting bigger. the war machines are getting bigger. our taxes are getting higher. nobody on either side are tackling these issues. we are -- as bloated as the yankees payroll. this doesn't end well. >> do you believe i worked that in? >> he's right. >> think about it. four years after, you know, the -- the -- anti-war president ran, we are still in afghanistan. we talked about drone attacks yesterday.
both sides are trying to prove they are stronger on national defense. our military is bankrupting us. medicaid is bankrupting us. social security is bankrupting us. nobody is talking about it. our taxes are getting higher. government is getting higher. regulations are growing more. nobody is talking about what americans want them to talk about. why? why are bev the parties the same? >> it is a strange thing to have both candidates asking us essentially to follow them blindly into the next four years. in other words, i'm pot going to get into specifics about what i'm going to do but trust me, i'm better than him or he's worse than me. the romnesia is about mitt romney standing for nothing. he has no core. he will shape shift depending who he is talking to. but from both sides, not just president's, mitt romney, too, we zone know what happens on day one when they get in and that's why it would have been nice in the mack it the president sent out yesterday, see new policies. i know we are recovering and dug ourselves out of a ditch but it has to happen faster. why would that happen faster with you, mr. president, or mitt
romney? other than cutting taxes, how are we going to get going into the next four years? >> you know the answer to the question you just asked. it is pretty simple. fear of losing. fear of losing their grip on power. both parties, both candidates, governor romney said the other night -- he's absolutely correct. with regard to afghanistan and anywhere else in the world. between can't kill our way to victory. and we can't. what he didn't say was we can't cut our way to solvency. you can call it what you will. you can call it raising taxes or whatever. we have to address the tax code in the system. it has to be reformed. >> when we come back, first account of the most extraordinary battle in the afghan war. dakota meyer joins us to talk about it.
kate white is here with her new book with secret success tips for the gutsy girl. first, here's bill karins. he has a check on the forecast. serious forecast. >> pit have a lot to get to. maybe a high impact, major east coast storm to talk about come sunday into tuesday. talk about what's happening with sandy. this is what will cause the issues over the next four to five days. it is now a strong thunderstorm. almost a hurricane approach jag make a during the day today. it is going to cross jamaica as a hurricane and cuba as a hurricane. then weaken to a tropical storm. at this point on friday be very close to practice. we have tropical storm watches, though. from the florida southeast coastline. a glancing blow by florida standards. rip current dangers. real threat will be what happens to the storm. does it move northward? up the east coast? does it get sucked back in?
that's one of the scenarios and that would be the worst case scenario is the blocking high doesn't allow the storm to head out to sea. instead it has to either go north or it has to tuck back in. if the jet stream captures this storm and call it phasing it would become a major northeast ea northeastern-type storm. it is a possibility still. that's why we are concerned. as far as the west coast goes, storm moving onor. still rain this morning in northern california, oregon, washington state. today is your last day of all this wet weather. warm temperatures, though, dom mate the country today. enjoy it while it lasts. cold air coming down from the north. once again the big story, we could be looking at potential for a major storm system related to sandy coming into new england towards the end of the weekend. ♪
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it has been said that where there is a brave man in the thickest of the fight, will is the -- today we pay a tribute to an american that placed himself in the thick of the fight. again and again and again. in so doing he earned our nation's highest military decoration, the medal of honor. and we are extraordinarily proud of sergeant dakota meyer. >> last year president obama awarded the prestigious medal of
honor to sergeant dakota meyer. heroic effort to save his comrades during an epic battle with taliban forces in afghanistan in 2009. marine veteran dakota meyer, first living marine to receive the award since the vietnam war, joins us today to tell us his story. also joining us bing west, a marine combat veteran himself and stormer secretary of defense for the reagan administration. they wrote "into the fire." firsthand account into the extraordinary battle in the afghan war. an honor to have you both on the show with us this morning. >> greats honor to have you here, bing, you have been here before. why was this book so important to write? >> when i was in the mountains in eastern afghanistan with an army platoon they said you have to meet our pit bull. and they brought me over and introduced me to dakota. we talked for about two minutes. we got a couple of incoming rounds and the next thing i turn around and did a coated a is in another fire fight.
they turned to me and they said he is like that all the time. this is long before he received the medal of honor. and i was -- very interested to try to determine whether it was dakota's nature being but up in kentucky with his dad on a farm or whether it was the nurturing he received from the marine corps that caused him to be so aggressive and never to give up. and so -- i wanted to tell the entire story about whether it is nature or training that turns out a warrior like dakota. >> so aggressive that sometimes you don't follow orders. fair to say? >> no, it is. i mean -- in the marine corps, you know, we are definitely taught to follow orders and obedience to orders. you know, it is like -- we are also taught bigger bond and more important than following orders is the brotherhood and doing that what's right. >> that's the story line in this battle you write about. can you give us the framework of what happened?
bing, would you like to take it on? >> it was a very simple framework and tragic. at the top they decided they would send in some afghan soldiers with their advisors like didakota. they said that the i will havil wanted to be friends. on the border of pakistan. the taliban came over and set up a village and had everybody pinned down. no one could move. then they were trying cut them off in the rear and finish them and kill about 90 people. >> dakota had been forced to be left behind. right? >> dakota was left behind. >> he thought he was a little too crazy. fight a little too much and made you sit there. >> well -- i don't know what the reasons are. i mean, they had me sit back of the truck. i was the only infantryman on the whole patrol.
i argued 37 maybe if i kept my mouth shut and not try to tell them what part of the mission was messed up before we went in there, maybe they would have let me gone in and i could have done something different. i guess that's just part of. >> it you heard the gun pyre and reacted. >> the first sergeant and others said you stay out. dakota decided no, i'm going in. and he was warned if he went in, he might be sent back on a plane to the states for disobedience of orders. he said i'm going in. when he went in he was the only truck moving on the entire battlefield. he was up -- when he first talked to me, he said i kept hearing all the static. he said all after sudden i realized those are the bullets going by. and they came up he -- he and his driver came up behind the taliban who were finishing their trap. and the taliban were running up to the truck trying to pitch grenades into it. he was shooting people at two feet, one foot. i mean, it was -- then the helicopter came in to get the evacuate the wounded behind him
and if dakota hadn't been in there, an awful lot of people would have died. >> you talked about -- sounds so surreal, none of us can understand what that was like. you were talking about nature versus nurture. reminds me, though, what we have here is just, you know, jack d federman, i asked him what made a great pilot, he said you know what they keep sending us engineers. i don't know want engineers. i want a guy that majored in pe that has instinct and guts. when he is in a fire fight, he knows how to follow orders and -- it sounds, dakota, that -- you don't sit there and calculate it out. you just dash just act on instinct. >> i just -- i do what i know is right. i do what my family taught me. my dad has been there, great role model my whole life and leading by example. you know, and i just do what is
right. i know what's right. lived that way and i just try to do -- do what i think is right. >> there was something else, mike, ask that was with your passion for the red sox about a baseball player and -- when he is up at bat, he swung that bat 10,000 times. he knows -- doesn't have to think about it. i asked a dakota, what were you thinking in battle? just my aim point, aim point. he was using a 50 caliber machine gun. 240 machine gun. his rifle. his grenade launcher and finally he -- killed one man with a rock. all of the time he was just looking at the site picture because he had fired 10,000 rounds before he got in. >> it is a combination of instinct and training and -- your own values you carry within you just addressed. in the context not just of this one battle, but in the context of your service in afghanistan and your experience in
afghanistan, how frustrating are the rules of engagement? >> you know, they are frustrating for two reasons. number one, it makes your commanders question everything that you do. number two, it also allows your leadership to have a way to get out of accountability and instead of holding themselvesings accountable for why should i -- i should have made a decision, should have known better, should have listened to my troops. the rules of engagement i had my hands tied so now i don't have to be held accountable for failing. >> did you that's a big part of the story. >> it is a huge part of the story because dakota received no fire support during the battle. it was refused time and time again. and the marines were so angry that they took one look at the first investigation. and insist order a second investigation. and there -- out of this battle, you had one medal of honor with dakota. three navy crosses. another medal of -- two navy crosses. another medal of honor that's missing to this day which is a -- disgrace in my judgment.
two letters of reprimand and two -- people fired for dereliction of duty. all in one battle. >> in the investigation it states that there was a direct loss of life due to leadership. and no one was held accountable for this. if an investigation states that if i had been held -- if hi an investigation on me that stated hi done something wrong, you can guarantee i would be held accountable but at the officer level this is what happen. >> the general is theater commander in afghanistan. just appoint. >> yeah. >> he was general -- done friday was the one that came over to meet us and have lunch with dakota right after the battle. dunford showed the right stuff. >> he came in and he -- he is a straightforward guy. he -- came in and he just, you know, wanted to get to the bottom of it. >> soda coat a i'm wondering about the days and months after this when you are alone. have you written this book along with bing and talked about this a lot, obviously. it must have been incredible
moment at that time white house. but when you are alone, has it always been an easy road back? >> no. >> to who you were? >> i don't know if i will ever get back to who i was because -- this day is -- offered me lessons in my life that will forever change my existence. but i mean, you know, it is just one of those things you have to deal with. you know, we all have hardships in our lives and have to live with what goes on and we can't control our life. it is all about taking opportunity and taking situations that we have no control over and turn them into opportunity and try to make a difference for america. and that's what i'm hoping to do. hopefully i can go out and provide inspiration to people who, you know, who need it. you know. right now we are all having a hard time with the economy and with the debates going on and everything. you know, there's a lot going on our shoulders. i'm trying go out and provide inspiration. remind people no matter what is going on, we still live in the greatest country on the face of the earth and it is because of men and women serving our country now. >> dakota, i want to read from
"into the fire." excerpt about when you returned. you said this. some guys really go nuts when they come back. and i wasn't in danger of that but i can feel the kind of crazy things that maybe got the better of them. as for me, i was a hunter before i went over there and i was a hunter still. but now i was all nervous about it. like i needed a machine gun fix. you were over there long enough and under such constant balt stress that it resets all of your settings way into the red. and they are very hard to set back. the main thing gnawing was i didn't get my friends out as i had promised. pit spent a good part of my 21 years being pretty critical of other people who failed at their responsibilities and now it was all coming back on me in a big dump truck. >> i feel like receiving the medal, you know -- i-didn't want it. i can't tell you how many people
i said. not only do i have to deal with my failure, i used to deal with it just with me. now i have to deal with it in the face of the nation with a medal around my neck that shows, you know, this guy was a failure. >> well, you -- you say a failure, of course, everybody else would look at you like -- you know, extraordinary hero that you are. but -- that just underlines the fact that none of us, nobody that has been through what you went through, can understand where you were then, where you are now, and how isolate sing that when you are at home and where do you get the support? who do you call up to say brother, are you going through what i'm going through? >> i think bing has seen it. he has been to my house a few times. my family is there for me. i can't thank my family and community enough for coming in and -- you know, small town, that's a good thing about it. they came in and they -- realized what happened. they come in and support me. and, you know, my friends, i have a great support system.
that's what it is about. in the marine corps we don't do anything alone. you know. we are in there and have a team and platoon squad. everything around and you the brotherhood is doing -- we try to get out and try to live independently. there's none of us that can do that. you know, i'm very fortunate to have the support system like i do. my family is real close. and -- that's where it is at. you have to -- you have to know that -- they are there for you and that -- they are going to be there. does it help? it does to a point. but then it is your own demons. you know what i mean? and i wear these bracelets on my wrist that have the name of my teammates on it and -- if i ever get a day i don't feel like i can push on, i look at my wrist. i have four reasons because those guys never got a chance to push on. >> and you heard this. i mean, you have -- you have -- time and time again in afghanistan and iraq and -- vietnam. guys coming home and still having a part of them left over
the there. >> what's gnawing at dakota. i knew what he was going to do. i said don't do it. i said i have to. he saw the president basically saying mr. president, i want this medal. dakota wanted to get his foot marines back and when he didn't get them back i know it is still eating at him. it will always eat at him. he believes and i believe he's right, that if he -- had been on that mission, they would still be alive and if he hadn't stopped to help all the afghans, they would still be alive. but he brought out over 12 afghans because they were wounded, because he couldn't just leave them there bleeding to death. he went through 14 tourniquets on the afghans before he got to his own team. i know that dakota is just -- just has to figure out a way of living with he saved some but wasn't able to save his own team. >> the book is "into the fire." it is incredible. you can rean excerpt on our blog.
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look who is back, kate white. she is out with a new book called "i shouldn't be telling you this." tell us what you shouldn't be telling us. have you great rules for success. and -- because -- i feel like "cosmo," you tell everything. i'm not sure what you haven't told us, kate. but you will start now. >> you know, i -- i guess what i wanted to do was -- share not only some of the strategies that seem to work but, you know, some of the goofs i have made over the years. and because i think that -- when you are a young woman you want to hear not only what works but what doesn't work. you know, i tell a few "cosmo" stories, too. >> start with what doesn't work. >> okay. what doesn't work? well, as mika talked about, one of the mistakes young women make and women across the board is we
don't ask for what we want. you know, we think well, they know i'm good. they are going to give it to me. or -- my work speaks for itself. and it doesn't. you have to go if there and ask for it. then when they -- they offer you something, you have to ask for more. >> every time. >> right. just can't talk yourself out of it. >> i -- i actually think you need to learn to do this from the get-go. and learn -- learn to be proud of articulating these things. women struggle with that sometimes. >> the first rule, go big or go home. talk about it. >> well, when you are in the work force often we think i will do what i have been told to do and do it well. but you -- only set yourself apart from the pack by going beyond what you have been told to do. you know, see something project out there that -- is just waiting for somebody to put their hand on it. something your boss does and wants to get rid of. those are the things that are going to help you, maybe solve a
problem that no one ever addressed but you have to do more than you have been told to do. >> okay. always ask for what you want. which, again, we always -- assume, i think, that they know. >> yeah. >> men or women. >> right. what's interesting, i saw a study that showed that if you start out with, let's say, $55,000 instead of $50 because when you were in that setting you -- when you were being hired, you negotiated for more the way men tend to do more than women, over a lifetime, that's going to equal $600,000 extra. it doesn't seem like that much at the time when you may -- say i'm going to suck it up and just take the 50, but it is going to make a lot of difference overall. >> okay. be the boss of your personal life, too. i like it. >> well, we tend to be good managers sometimes. and, yet, in our work life, then -- after work, you know, we let work bleed so heavily into our personal life, you have to be the bossy pants there, too. >> yeah? sure? >> in terms of your personal
life, though, in terms of going forward, younger women, coming into the workplace, get married, they want to have a family. what about that age old dilemma? will that ever be resolved? can you have both? can you have a family, can you be pregnant at work? can you get maternity leave and still flourish? >> are those still questions? >> we looked at the essay a couple of months ago. i think struck it all all depending on how you define it and understand when have you kids, do you have to make tradeoffs sometimes. kids are a hungry beast. as --s as it was said in that piece, she couldn't have it all and yet she was working away from her kid and the kid wanted her home. so you have to understand if you are going to be a mom, there are tradeoffs. >> what is a golden gut? barnicle and i want to know this. you say every woman needs a golden gut. what is that? >> i think it pays to be paranoid, a little paranoid, listen and pay attention. stop talking and hear what's
going on. know that -- in so many of our fields today, the ground shifts, there are changes. you need to know what might be your specialty one day will be obsolete. pay attention. >> finally, i love this line and this advice, how to own a room and be great on your feet. that's so difficult for men and women but -- sometimes especially for women that are used to -- used to being the hard workers and watch the men -- mika knows what i speak. how do you tell young women to own a room and be great on their feet? >> one thing that natalie told me that i found very helpful was that you -- you stop thinking about yourself. they are waiting for a solution at the interview, sitting here, they want you to be the solution. think about what you can do for them and not get caught up in your own angst. >> the book is "i shouldn't be telling you this."
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and discover another reason serious investors are choosing fidelity. ♪ time for business before the bell. cnbc's brian shactman. most importantly, big red sox fan. what do you think about the sox's new manager? >> i like him. i think they wanted him last year and i think it is positive. i'm more troubled by why bobby v. is still yapping about the team and big papi who supported him. that's a heartbreaker. my season particular receipts still in place, joe. you can come with me any time. barnicle, i don't know -- he can sit with me, too. >> barnicles that best seats in all of baseball. >> you don't believe want to sit in mine then. >> i do. barnicle won't let me sit in
his. anyway, we will go watch the sox regain their footing next year. let's talk about u.s. stocks. they lost half a trillion dollars in the last three days. what the heck is going on? >> well, listen, everyone thought the u.s. was stronger than everybody else in the world. and earnings so far saying that maybe we are a little bit weaker than people thought. and so that's the biggest drag in terms of the approach to the markets. also if you are an investor and did well, joe in 2012, you see this sort of happening. why wouldn't you sell and take profits and assure had you a decent year? i-want to point out a couple of quick things. today we are actually up. you have boeing and at&t have pretty good results but again, their revenues were light. u.s., again, not as strong as people think. apple had a tough day yesterday. the new ipad mini, ipad 4, i don't think steve jobs would have had such product confusion. he would have priced it right. facebook is back up to the races. up 13%. >> all right. thank you so much. listen, i'm going to take you up on those seats at fenway.
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♪ welcome back to "morning joe." time to talk about what we learned today. >> read this book. "into the fire." find out the cost of war. >> that's what i learned, too. i would -- we were actually talking about this book on a plane and everybody on our show already booked him. that's how good a story it is. what an incredible message on so many level. >> so many levels and we didn't really get into it. but -- this book, and i think b would go agree a microcosm of what